Exterminationism - Revision history

Callafangers at 19:16, 10 September 2026

2026-09-10T19:16:01Z

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	=== Circular Reasoning and Logical Fallacies ===		=== Circular Reasoning and Logical Fallacies ===

	A common tactic~~, per revisionists,~~ is the use of circular reasoning where the Holocaust's occurrence is accepted a priori, and any evidence is then fitted to this predetermined conclusion:		A common exterminationist tactic is the use of circular reasoning where the Holocaust's occurrence is accepted a priori, and any evidence is then fitted to this predetermined conclusion:

	: '''Assuming the Conclusion''': For example, the claim that mass gassings happened, therefore, any evidence or interpretation must conform to this view, even if it contradicts scientific findings.		: '''Assuming the Conclusion''': For example, the claim that mass gassings happened, therefore, any evidence or interpretation must conform to this view, even if it contradicts scientific findings.

Callafangers at 16:41, 13 August 2026

2026-08-13T16:41:23Z

Callafangers at 16:37, 13 August 2026

2026-08-13T16:37:15Z

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	: '''Reprisals and Resistance''': Revisionists argue that deaths occurred, but often in the context of partisan resistance, anti-terrorist operations, or local reprisals rather than a widespread and state-sponsored extermination program.		: '''Reprisals and Resistance''': Revisionists argue that deaths occurred, but often in the context of partisan resistance, anti-terrorist operations, or local reprisals rather than a widespread and state-sponsored extermination program.

	: '''Civilians and Partisans''': Distinctions are made between combatant and non-combatant deaths, suggesting that the extermination narrative overstates military actions as genocidal acts.		: '''Civilians and Partisans''': Distinctions are made between combatant and non-combatant deaths (also accounting for partisan reprisals), suggesting that the extermination narrative overstates military actions as genocidal acts.

	=== Concluding Thoughts ===		=== Concluding Thoughts ===

Callafangers at 16:34, 13 August 2026

2026-08-13T16:34:28Z

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	: '''Primary vs. Secondary Sources''': Revisionists critique the heavy reliance on secondary sources that often echo earlier unverified claims, advocating instead for a focus on primary documents. They argue:		: '''Primary vs. Secondary Sources''': Revisionists critique the heavy reliance on secondary sources that often echo earlier unverified claims, advocating instead for a focus on primary documents. They argue:

	:: '''Misrepresentation''': Secondary sources have ~~sometimes~~ been found to misrepresent or selectively quote from primary documents, creating a narrative that leans towards the exterminationist view.		:: '''Misrepresentation''': Secondary sources have often been found to misrepresent or selectively quote from primary documents, creating a narrative that leans towards the exterminationist view.

	:: '''Authenticity and Context''': The authenticity, context, and provenance of documents are crucial. Revisionists often question documents presented post-war, suggesting they might have been manipulated or misinterpreted for political reasons.		:: '''Authenticity and Context''': The authenticity, context, and provenance of documents are crucial. Revisionists often question documents presented post-war, suggesting they might have been manipulated or misinterpreted for political reasons.

Callafangers at 16:33, 13 August 2026

2026-08-13T16:33:39Z

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	Documentary evidence is another battleground:		Documentary evidence is another battleground:

	: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan, while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.		: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan (based on claimed "euphemisms"), while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.

	: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or specific plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.		: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or specific plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.

Callafangers at 16:33, 13 August 2026

2026-08-13T16:33:03Z

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	: '''Absence of Prussian Blue''': The lack of significant FeCN levels or Prussian Blue staining in alleged gas chambers, as opposed to high levels in areas used for delousing, suggests that these rooms were not used for homicidal gassing. Revisionists argue this scientific evidence is often dismissed or rationalized away with explanations that appear contrived or devoid of empirical support.		: '''Absence of Prussian Blue''': The lack of significant FeCN levels or Prussian Blue staining in alleged gas chambers, as opposed to high levels in areas used for delousing, suggests that these rooms were not used for homicidal gassing. Revisionists argue this scientific evidence is often dismissed or rationalized away with explanations that appear contrived or devoid of empirical support.

	: '''Selective Expertise''': ~~There's an accusation~~ that ~~only~~ expert opinions that align with the exterminationist view are given credence, while contributions from experts like Rudolf are marginalized or altogether ignored.		: '''Selective Expertise''': It is observed that expert opinions that align with the exterminationist view are given credence, while contributions from experts like Rudolf are marginalized or altogether ignored.

	=== The Role of Eyewitness Testimony ===		=== The Role of Eyewitness Testimony ===
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	: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan, while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.		: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan, while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.

	: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or ~~detailed~~ plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.		: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or specific plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.

	=== Source Criticism ===		=== Source Criticism ===

Callafangers at 23:24, 16 January 2025

2025-01-16T23:24:39Z

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	:: '''Resettlement''': Many Jews were deported to the Soviet Union or other eastern territories (behind the 'Iron Curtain'), with significant numbers likely surviving the war.		:: '''Resettlement''': Many Jews were deported to the Soviet Union or other eastern territories (behind the 'Iron Curtain'), with significant numbers likely surviving the war.

	:: '''Double Counting and Migration''': ~~There's an assertion that many~~ Jews ~~might~~ have been double-counted or migrated, contributing to the perception of a population drop in occupied territories.		:: '''Double Counting and Migration''': Many Jews may have been double-counted or migrated, contributing to the perception of a population drop in occupied territories.

	:: '''Loss and Dispersion''': Many Jews indeed "lost" family members due to various causes of death both during and after the war, with others scattering into several dozen countries post-war, permanently losing contact and frequently assuming mutual 'extermination'.		:: '''Loss and Dispersion''': Many Jews indeed "lost" family members due to various causes of death both during and after the war, with others scattering into several dozen countries post-war, permanently losing contact and frequently assuming mutual 'extermination'.

Callafangers at 23:23, 16 January 2025

2025-01-16T23:23:44Z

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	: '''Missing Jews''': While the exterminationist narrative posits millions of Jews were killed, revisionists highlight the significant number of Jews who reappeared post-war, challenging the narrative of mass extermination through gas chambers or other collective means of murder. They argue this population discrepancy must be accounted for, suggesting:		: '''Missing Jews''': While the exterminationist narrative posits millions of Jews were killed, revisionists highlight the significant number of Jews who reappeared post-war, challenging the narrative of mass extermination through gas chambers or other collective means of murder. They argue this population discrepancy must be accounted for, suggesting:

	:: '''Resettlement''': Many Jews were deported to the Soviet Union or other eastern territories, with significant numbers surviving the war.		:: '''Resettlement''': Many Jews were deported to the Soviet Union or other eastern territories (behind the 'Iron Curtain'), with significant numbers likely surviving the war.

	:: '''Double Counting and Migration''': There's an assertion that many Jews might have been double-counted or migrated, contributing to the perception of a population drop in occupied territories.		:: '''Double Counting and Migration''': There's an assertion that many Jews might have been double-counted or migrated, contributing to the perception of a population drop in occupied territories.

Callafangers at 06:13, 16 January 2025

2025-01-16T06:13:19Z

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	: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan, while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.		: '''Documentary Misuse''': Documents like the Wannsee Protocol and Luther's memo are interpreted by exterminationists as evidence of a systematic extermination plan, while revisionists argue these documents discuss resettlement and should not be interpreted as euphemisms for extermination without credible evidence for this claim.

	: '''Source Criticism''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or detailed plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and do not constitute credible evidence of genocide.

	: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or detailed plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.		: '''Lack of Direct Orders or Plans''': Revisionists highlight the absence of any direct orders or detailed plans outlining a systematic extermination program from German archives, arguing that alleged euphemisms or indirect references are unsupported and, thus, do not constitute evidence of genocide.

Callafangers at 06:12, 16 January 2025

2025-01-16T06:12:41Z

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	:: '''Misrepresentation''': Secondary sources have sometimes been found to misrepresent or selectively quote from primary documents, creating a narrative that leans towards the exterminationist view.		:: '''Misrepresentation''': Secondary sources have sometimes been found to misrepresent or selectively quote from primary documents, creating a narrative that leans towards the exterminationist view.

	: '''Authenticity and Context''': The authenticity, context, and provenance of documents are crucial. Revisionists often question documents presented post-war, suggesting they might have been manipulated or misinterpreted for political reasons.		:: '''Authenticity and Context''': The authenticity, context, and provenance of documents are crucial. Revisionists often question documents presented post-war, suggesting they might have been manipulated or misinterpreted for political reasons.

	: '''Consistency and Verification''': There's an emphasis on verifying documents against multiple sources, timelines, and physical evidence rather than accepting them at face value.		:: '''Consistency and Verification''': There's an emphasis on verifying documents against multiple sources, timelines, and physical evidence rather than accepting them at face value.

	: '''Legal and Propaganda Use''': It's pointed out that many documents were produced in the context of war crimes trials where defendants had little capacity to dispute evidence presented against them, possibly leading to coerced or exaggerated testimonies.		:: '''Legal and Propaganda Use''': It's pointed out that many documents were produced in the context of war crimes trials where defendants had little capacity to dispute evidence presented against them, possibly leading to coerced or exaggerated testimonies.

	=== The Population Conundrum ===		=== The Population Conundrum ===

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	Exterminationists often downplay or dismiss scientific evidence that contradicts their narrative. For instance, studies like those conducted by Germar Rudolf on the presence of Prussian Blue (also known as iron-cyanide or FeCN) in Auschwitz contradict the gas chamber narrative. They demonstrate:		Exterminationists often downplay or dismiss scientific evidence that contradicts their narrative. For instance, studies like those conducted by Germar Rudolf on the presence of Prussian Blue (also known as iron-cyanide or FeCN) in Auschwitz contradict the gas chamber narrative. They demonstrate:

	: '''Absence of Prussian Blue''': The lack of significant FeCN levels or Prussian Blue staining in alleged gas chambers, as opposed to high levels in areas used for delousing, suggests that these rooms were not used for homicidal gassing. Revisionists ~~argue~~ this scientific evidence is often dismissed or rationalized away with explanations that appear contrived or devoid of empirical support.		: '''Absence of Prussian Blue''': The lack of significant FeCN levels (or Prussian Blue staining) in alleged gas chambers, as opposed to high levels in areas used for delousing, suggests that these rooms were not used for homicidal gassing. Revisionists have noted this scientific evidence is often dismissed or rationalized away with explanations that appear contrived or devoid of empirical support.

	: '''Selective Expertise''': It is observed that expert opinions that align with the exterminationist view are given credence, while contributions from experts like Rudolf are marginalized or altogether ignored.		: '''Selective Expertise''': It is observed that expert opinions that align with the exterminationist view are given credence, while contributions from experts like Rudolf are marginalized or altogether ignored.
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	: '''Inconsistencies and Falsifications''': Eyewitness testimonies are criticized for being rife with inconsistencies, exaggerations, and outright falsehoods (e.g., tales of Jews surviving multiple gassings, or elevators leading to ovens). Revisionists argue that these inaccuracies should call into question the reliability of such accounts.		: '''Inconsistencies and Falsifications''': Eyewitness testimonies are criticized for being rife with inconsistencies, exaggerations, and outright falsehoods (e.g., tales of Jews surviving multiple gassings, or elevators leading to ovens). Revisionists argue that these inaccuracies should call into question the reliability of such accounts.

	: '''Coercion and Motive''': It's suggested that testimonies might have been given under coercion or for motives like receiving benefits, gaining immigration or asylum, or as part of a broader narrative to demonize the Germans.		: '''Coercion and Motive''': It's suggested that testimonies might have been given under coercion or for motives like receiving benefits, gaining immigration or asylum, or as part of a broader narrative (and wartime propaganda) to demonize the Germans.

	=== Circular Reasoning and Logical Fallacies ===		=== Circular Reasoning and Logical Fallacies ===

	A common tactic, ~~according to~~ revisionists, is the use of circular reasoning where the Holocaust's occurrence is accepted a priori, and any evidence is then fitted to this predetermined conclusion:		A common tactic, per revisionists, is the use of circular reasoning where the Holocaust's occurrence is accepted a priori, and any evidence is then fitted to this predetermined conclusion:

	: '''Assuming the Conclusion''': For example, the claim that mass gassings happened, therefore, any evidence or interpretation must conform to this view, even if it contradicts scientific findings.		: '''Assuming the Conclusion''': For example, the claim that mass gassings happened, therefore, any evidence or interpretation must conform to this view, even if it contradicts scientific findings.
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	=== Concluding Thoughts ===		=== Concluding Thoughts ===

	The revisionist perspective posits that the orthodox Holocaust narrative uses a combination of flawed scientific interpretations, unreliable or coerced testimonies, and logical fallacies to construct an unassailable narrative. They argue for a re-examination of the evidence with an open mind, advocating for:		The revisionist perspective posits that the orthodox Holocaust narrative uses a combination of flawed scientific interpretations, unreliable or coerced testimonies, and logical fallacies to construct an 'unassailable' narrative. They argue for a re-examination of the evidence with an open mind, advocating for:

	: '''Forensic Reassessment''': More attention to physical and chemical evidence from camps, promoting independent scientific verification.		: '''Forensic Reassessment''': More attention to physical and chemical evidence from camps, promoting independent scientific verification.
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	: '''Transparency in Historiography''': Encouraging a dialogue that includes all voices and evidence, even those that challenge deeply held beliefs or narratives.		: '''Transparency in Historiography''': Encouraging a dialogue that includes all voices and evidence, even those that challenge deeply held beliefs or narratives.

	For revisionists, the debate isn't about denying the suffering of WWII but about challenging what they ~~believe to be~~ an overly simplified, politicized version of historical events. They seek to replace "exterminationist tactics" with a search for truth, unvarnished by ideology or political expediency.		For revisionists, the debate isn't about denying the suffering of WWII but about challenging what they see as an overly simplified, politicized version of historical events. They seek to replace "exterminationist tactics" with a search for truth, unvarnished by ideology or political expediency.